Transcripts of 2011 Presidential Commission on Bioethical Issues Meetings

Original Transcript URL: http://www.bioethics.gov/cms/node/203

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TRANSCRIPT: Meeting 4, Session 10

Public Comment

Date

March 1, 2011

Location

Washington, D.C.

Transcript

DR. GUTMANN:
And to maximize the time for anybody in the audience to make a comment, raise a question, we are going to not break and move right into public comments. And so there is a roving microphone. Somebody — Who has the microphone? Can I see who has the microphone? Okay. So people don’t have to crawl over each other.
 
And if you would keep your comments brief, I would be very appreciative. Because if you don’t, I’m afraid I have to make time for others. Just give us one moment, please.
 
We have been timing, keeping all of our speakers to time, too. And that is the apparatus.
 
MS. BONHAM:
If I can clarify. We had a number of people who asked to speak and we had a public sign-in at the front table as we communicated throughout the past few weeks with people who asked to speak.
 
Consequently to all of you wonderful people in line, I am sorry to say I am going to go in order of this list. So everybody could actually just sit down please and I will call the list and I will bring this to you. Okay? Thank you so much.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Please, Val, start. And I would ask each person after Val calls you and you come up, if you could just introduce yourself to us, we would be very appreciative of that. Thank you.
 
MS. BONHAM:
Wonderful. So the first person I have is Michael S. Perfect. Thank you so much.
 
MR. SHANEYFELT:
My name is Michael Shaneyfelt. I am from Birmingham, Alabama. The question that I brought to the Board is that in 2000 I was approached by a Navy sub diver and he brought to my attention the use of an auditory weapon that he stole from the United States Navy. He told me about this weapon that he stole from the Navy and he told me how the weapon would affect the central nervous system of a human. And he wanted me to go out and assist him in certain things.
 
And in 2006, my life changed. I woke up one day and I got a strong electrical shock in the center of my chest. From that, I started to have problems with my heart. I started having bigeminies, irregular rhythms. I went into the hospital. The doctors determined that I was getting an electrical shock through my chest.
 
Then I went in and had an operation done, an ablation. And with all this, it just keeps going on. From then it went to my lungs and then from there it went to my kidneys. From there it went to my bladder. From there it went to my colon and it keeps going on and on and on.
 
Medically I have been looked at and reviewed over and over and over again. My brother, he is a doctor. My sister, she is a nurse. My nephew is a nurse. And I have got people that have talked to me about medical situations and medical views. And I know exactly what is occurring is wrong and I feel like I am a test subject. And I have responded to the government and the government responded back to me but I have not seen no action.
 
I have given you all a report and you all can look at the letters that I have sent in.
 
MR. SCHATZ:
Thank you. My name is Gerald Schatz and I am a lawyer and retired professor, Assistant Professor of Ethics and Law at Michigan State University. I want to address two things very quickly.
 
One is the theme of vulnerability and its recognition. We have gone from an era of very reflective and I think very decent recognition of the moral obligations of researchers to an era of discussion of regulatory burden. I think that is unseemly.
 
The second point is that there is law out there. The bioethics community has been oblivious to it but there is international law. There is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights the United States ratified in 1992 and it makes informed consent an absolute requirement, no exceptions, not even in emergencies, subject to those normal legal fictions of consenting for the incapacitated patient to medical care and so forth.
 
Additionally, the Geneva Conventions and additional protocols to the Geneva Conventions make research very, very difficult or prohibited altogether for those individuals who are caught up in the war and armed conflicts.
 
Michigan State University faculty responded to the OHRP request for comment in 2005 on equivalent protections. I will be pleased to provide that comment and those citations and some additional materials to the Commission. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
MR. RYAN:
Thank you very much. My name is Cina Ryan. I am an American. I have been living here since 1976.
 
To answer the question the chair lady that is it still going to happen or is it still going on, I will assure you that there is still experimentation going on and one of live is standing right here.
 
I strongly believe that I have been targeted for the experimentation of brain research since September 2008, without my consent. They are controlling my mind and using electronic remote control device to send instruction. In the past two and a half years, I have been subjected to constant electric shock, a sleep disturbance, a sleep deprivation, short breaths, severe localized pain into various parts of my body, telephone and bell rings in my ears, heat waves through my body, horrifying dreams, creating sudden fear and worries in my mind.
 
They do these mostly when I am inside my apartment but sometimes all this happens, some of this happens when I am outside without I am seeing anybody or any device. This experimentation are done to me without any touch or anything or see anybody.
 
This inhuman and painful method of torture include reading my thoughts and memories. To this, they have been able to control me and subject me to severe pain that I have been suffering for the past 29 months. My health has deteriorated during this time and I have no medical insurance to significant help. My life is in danger and I need your help from the government. And I am only asking them to stop this painful torture and leave me alone so I can go back to my life. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Dr. John Hall.
 
DR. HALL:
My name is Dr. John Hall. I am a medical doctor from Texas. As I understand the memorandum from the President, it is for you to determine if current legislation is adequate in protecting individuals and if there is any ongoing experimentation.
 
In reviewing the Common Rule, it is very obvious that there is a lot of loop holes to informed consent. All of the horrific experiments you have mentioned, Willowbrook, MKULTRA, radiation experiments, mostly were done without informed consent. They were funded by the DoD and intelligence agencies where I am not even so sure you would know if there is an IRB, much less if an IRB is looking at informed consent.
 
As a physician, relative to some of what you are hearing today, in the community we are seeing an alarming rate of complaints of use of electromagnetic weapons. Microwave auditory effects, silent sound spectrum, EEG cloning, which has taken the lab out of the laboratory and into the home. Most of these from the research that we have reviewed can be done remotely. It seems to be more weapons research than medical research.
 
I personally corresponded with upwards of 1500 victims all complaining of identical complaints from every state in the nation of being exposed to electromagnetic radiation, non-ionizing radiation for the use of cognitive control or behavior control.
 
I submitted a paper to you and there is another paper submitted to each member from another physician in Kansas City alluding to the same thing.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Millicent Black.
 
MS. BLACK:
My name is Millicent Black. I am from Tennessee, possibly a transgenerational person whose family members have been used for at least three generations and I am the second one. My Dad possibly was the first one who was admitted to a Nashville Hospital with a pineal gland tumor left there with a plate in the back of his head, not the front of his head where his pineal gland would have been.
 
At his death, I sought — Well actually before his death I sought legal counsel for some horrendous treatment he had received at a nursing home that was also partnering with that hospital in Nashville, only to find out that a judge told the attorneys to drop that case.
 
I am a part of the group that is here today representing those who are receiving the electromagnetic torture and even my daughter at five months old was referred to that same Nashville Hospital after having been refused treatment at the local hospital. I believe she is also a victim of the electromagnetic torture. Where does this stop? When are we re-given our rights as humans and as citizens? Does being African Americans qualify us as non-Black or non-White, and non-American citizens or non-American people? We seem to have a double blind going.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Marshall? Mrs. Marshall.
 
MS. MARSHALL:
Good afternoon. My name is Connie Marshall. I am a former mayoral candidate from Louisville, Kentucky. I have never been involved in any criminal activity. I found a document in my bank account that said problem with Kentucky government. Check federal government paperwork in file before releasing information to anyone.
 
I am an eight year victim survivor of assaults by directed energy weapons. The torture I have experienced consists of body overheating, body extremely cold, seizures, heart pain, earaches, itching behind eyes, burning behind eyes, swelling, headaches, involuntary movement of my limbs, exhaustion, speeding and heart racing, hair coming out by the handfuls as if I have had chemotherapy, mind paralysis, being hypnotized or being placed in a trance-type state, being tracked by a drone or satellite, controlled dreams, sleep deprivation, V2K which is voice to skull, projected sound, extreme muscle spasms and extreme muscle cramps; being made to fall down; blue circles around the pupils of my eyes and I am here and you can look at them if you like; low frequency noises in my home; high frequency noises in my home; sexual stimulation. Numerous electrical appliances in my home are destroyed; four computers, two fax machines, seven telephones, four CD players, VCR, DVD players, the electrical igniter switch on my furnace, washer and dryer, air conditioner. Also my car radio, CD player and engine were destroyed. I am watched in my home 24 hours a day and followed around everywhere I go, though I do not have a criminal history.
 
When I ran for Mayor of my town, I was also attacked at debates and forums. My website is www.justiceforallcitizens.com. Thank you. And I would like to leave you with these flyers as well. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Allen Hornblum.
 
MR. HORNBLUM:
My name is Allen Hornblum. I am a Philadelphia-based author who has written books on things running the gambit from organized crime to Soviet espionage. But for the purposes of this meeting, I have written two books on the history of using prison inmates as test subjects. You may be familiar with one or both of them.
 
I am working with a couple colleagues now on the history of using institutionalized children as test subjects for research. And I can assure you some of the material I am finding is quite astounding, including the fact that Nobel Prize winners went to institutions for the feeble minded to use them as test subjects.
 
And in interviewing people over the years, not just test subjects which I do on a regular basis, but also the doctors who initiated these experiments, these clinical trials. I am talking about people like Albert Kligman and Hilary Koprowski, Chester Southam, some of the top researchers of the twentieth century, most of them are famous but some are infamous. It is remarkable that almost all of them articulate how little medical ethics was taught in medical schools at the time. And I had to bring up, I had to educate one of them, in fact, about the Nuremberg Code. When I mentioned it, he wasn’t even familiar with it.
 
These problems with regard to medical ethics are still there. I periodically give talks at Universities in med schools and it is stunning to me that when I go into a book store at the university and go in, maybe I will see one of my books there. Of course I am a little bit disturbed when they don’t, but I also don’t see anything by Harriet Washington or by James Jones, Bad Blood, or by Jonathan Moreno’s book. Medical ethics is an orphan in today’s medical arena. It is out there in left field. They really deemphasize it and that is part of the continuing problem.
 
The doctors, as Dan said earlier when they do these studies, it is a cost benefit analysis and there is much more benefit to doing research, even when it breaks rules and laws and cuts corners than by following the rules. And that is why I believe the Commission has to make a very strong condemnation of Dr. Cutler and the institutions and doctors that he worked with, not just with regard to Tuskegee and Guatemala but there are so many other incidents and events out there.
 
As Susan said, we will continue to discover these. There will be another commission like yours in ten years going over what you didn’t look at or what you didn’t do. So I would encourage you to be as aggressive as possible, not just describe what happened but really condemn those who broke the law because there are doctors making decisions right now and those decisions are going the wrong way. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Debra Poulson or Debra Paulson.
 
MS. POULSEN
Hi, I am Debra Poulsen from Kenosha, Wisconsin.
 
I am going to refer to a paper from Professor McCoy at the University of Wisconsin on no-touch torture. He talks about a total assault on all senses and sensibilities, auditory, visual, tactile, temporal, temperature, and survival, refined through years of practice. Sensory disorientation relies on a mix of sensory overload and sensory deprivation via banal procedures, isolation, by intense interrogation, heat and cold, light and dark, noise and silence or a systematic attack on all human stimuli.
 
I have been a human subject for experimentation for almost two years and I stand with, I have contacted Dr. Hall, I stand with a very large group. Excuse me I am very nervous but I am very tired of having my rights taken away. And thank you for hearing me and thank you for the others. I would like some help. Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Lisa Becker.
 
MS. BECKER:
Thank you. My name is Lisa Becker. I am also from Wisconsin. I have been a non-consenting test subject in military medical research. I, too, believe my experience is referred to as no-touch torture, utilize defense technologies.
 
Jonathan Moreno, he basically predicted all this a number of years ago in his book Undue Risk.
 
I am asking you to help initiate a congressional investigation. We have all come a long way. This is what is needed. We want to have the accounts of this extreme human rights abuse that is going on in our country documented and heard, all of the accounts.
 
We also need what was done during the Clinton administration, which is a major declassification of some of these documents that are hiding what has been going on.
 
I speak for many when I say we have suffered long enough. My personal experience has been ten years. I have been vilified. I have been tortured. I have burns on my body. I am an American. I have rights.
 
The answer to the question, the big question today, could it happen today, the answer is yes. It is happening today. It is happening for some of us every day.
 
I am begging for you to help us. Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. James Wollet — Walbert.
 
MR. WOLLET:
My name is James Wollet. To date, I have one of the strongest cases documented of these unethical violations against our society.
 
Due to the facts of having the kinds of professionals that I have involved with this case, I have been able to prove that this crime against others and myself is real and shows reason to be concerned with.
 
I am in hopes that I am able to prove the same thing to this committee and by the introduction of the evidence that I have to introduce to the committee, I and the professionals that are standing with myself in this crime, would like for this committee to consider the introduction of these documents with the growing concern of this crime to the President for his review.
 
With these hopes in mind for this consideration, I would also like to ask of this committee to consider an investigation into these unethical violations of others and myself that are affected by this crime.
 
With this consideration of this investigation I request into these matters, I would also like to point out the abuses of children that have been documented by the many professionals that I am currently working with into these matters of this crime. To date, the professionals have been documenting these offenses against the children that are related to the many victims of these crimes. They have proven this concern to be valid as I am pointing out to this committee. The growing concern of fellow states that have now passed laws against forced chipping of an RFID tracking chip. These states have now passed such bills into law. Colorado House Bill 071082; North Dakota Senate Bill 2415; Oklahoma State Senate Bill 47, House Bill 072092; Missouri House Bill 550; Pennsylvania Bill; Georgia Senate Bill 235; and the list just goes on.
 
I was also wanting to ask if I could provide a portfolio of introduction of 12 professionals from political support to medical investigations, as well as private investigative support to committee as well for review.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
You may. Thank you very much.
 
MR. WOLLET:
Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Peter Rosen.
 
MR. ROSENHOLM:
Hi, I am Peter Rosenholm. I am from Rhode Island. Like all the others, we go through this every day, at least 14 years now of being tortured. It is nonconsensual human experimentation. It is remote. It is covert. It is hard to prove it a lot of times. Many of my attacks were microwave weapons, MEDUSA is one.
 
In all the hospital statements when I was hospitalized, I told of being hit by radiation weapons, that I could hear voices. MEDUSA now admits to all those capabilities.
 
I am also in the Naval War Colleges Congressional District and I have got falsely diagnosed, drugged. I have pretty much proven all that wrong. I am off all the medication but I am still tortured. It goes on every day and it goes on every day for all of these people. What I would like is for us to have a participation on your committee for someone from our group to actually participate. I am wondering if that is possible because we are the victims. We are like the Guatemalans who were tortured. Is there a chance that that can happen? Did you hear me?
 
DR. GUTMANN:
You are —
 
MR. ROSENHOLM:
Is there a chance that a group or an individual from us can be on the committee?
 
DR. GUTMANN:
We are constituted by the President as a Commission and we have public comment and you can write us and we will read everything you give us.
 
MR. ROSENHOLM:
Right.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
It is the President who — President Obama appoints the Commission.
 
MR. ROSENHOLM:
The other thing we deal with is like a COINTELPRO attack. Law enforcement attacks us, discredits us, will put us in a mental hospital if we try too hard. These people all don’t want to go to doctors. The Patriot Act has provisions what doctors have to follow what they say. So all of these people aren’t getting their teeth fixed, aren’t going for medical care. We are in a bad situation.
 
Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Kenneth Rhoads or Rhands. Mr. Kenneth Rhoads.
 
(No response.)
 
STAFFER
Ms. Letitia Peters.
 
MS. PETERS:
Madame Chair, members of the Bioethics Committee, my name is Letitia Peters and I am from Trenton, New Jersey. I was a federal government employee working 16 years as an electronics engineer right here in Washington, D.C. where I got sick due to toxic metal exposure. And when I started complaining about it and using my rights, I believe now after five years of being out of the government, after 16 years of service, that I was put into this 24/7 execution chamber. And I, too, am looking for congressional investigations. I should be covered under the Whistle Protection Blowers Act and I, too, would like to submit documentation which I presented.
 
And I have been denied medical treatment. I have been disregarded as being nonhuman. All my rights have been violated. My parents and I are living together now in Trenton, New Jersey, and there are low-flying aircrafts dropping biological weapons over our houses every day in order to try to kill me. And I just want to demonstrate some of the evidence that I have and provide to you because I have been trying to get to the President but I know all of my information has been rerouted.
 
So I, too, am requesting a congressional investigation as well. And may I present this information to you?
 
DR. GUTMANN:
You may. Thank you very much.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Tammy Battaglia.
 
MS. BATTAGLIA
Hi, my name is Tammy Battaglia. I have been enrolled in psychological experiments on the record since the age of 13 without my consent.
 
I have spent many years recovering from experimental hypnosis, physical and biological testing that I have undergone during decades of tests conducted by government-funded doctors, corporate think tanks and researchers.
 
I have experienced tremendous loss and trauma over the years of subjection to nonconsensual experimentation, which has been devastating to my life. The people conducting experiments on other human beings do not consider the horribly destructive ramifications that they are subjecting victims to. As a result, there is no rehabilitation after experiments. No consideration is given to the often severe, psychological and physical trauma suffered by nonconsensual tests subjects almost continuously.
 
Many victims such as myself are diagnosed with nonexistent mental illnesses and as a result, we are expected to take dangerous medications that we do not need. There is no way to seek justice for what we have endured because in America, the land of the free, justice is not free.
 
The experiments violate every right imaginable and offer no restitution whatsoever. If myself or any other victim approaches law enforcement or government agencies, we are spurned and in some cases forcibly taken to mental institutions. I have not consented to be experimented on by any branch of the government, military, or members of the American Medical Association.
 
The initial experiments unfolded from decisions that were made for me when I was a child at a time when I was unable to understand what I was being volunteered for or what the consequences would be. I deserve to be vindicated and released from these experiments immediately, as do all of us. Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Rose Gapinski.
 
MS. GAPINSKI:
Amy, I love your question of us to try to figure out what the big problem is, to really analyze and get to the root of it. And I thought at first it was containment, which leads to things like false flags to confuse people. It leads to harassing people to discredit them or disable them, the TIs that is, the victims. It leads to possible corruption, secrecy, possible fear of going to prison on the part of the people that are executing these things.
 
And then I realized underneath the containment, the secrecy-containment umbrella, is a really glaring inability of the U.S. to ever apologize for anything. To be able to say I am sorry, the rest of the world is waiting for us to say I’m sorry or I admit to something. I have flaws. Everyone does. And contrary to the Pentagon myth that you should not do that to be strong, contrary to that myth, it makes a person stronger. Therefore, it will also make a country stronger. Other countries would very much appreciate it.
 
Say, you know, I’m sorry, two seconds of silence and then we can go on with life.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Jeremy Radlow.
 
MR. RADLAR:
My name is Jeremy Radlar. I am here to tell you that nonconsensual human experimentation is happening in the United States today. I have been the subject of this experimentation for more than five years.
 
Calling these activities experimentation is truthful but possibly distracting. I think the criteria governing the selection of experimentees will prove to be a much bigger scandal than the experimentation itself.
 
The psychological torture protocol that is part of the so-called experimentation includes, but is not limited to, the use of non-lethal weapons and mind-invasive technology. Sleep deprivation, pain center stimulation, and worse are used against subjects.
 
While some experimentees have found foreign objects in their bodies suggesting implantation, most have not. Receiverless mind-invasive technology has been demonstrated under laboratory conditions but the most likely explanation is that experimentees are implanted with foreign objects either too small to appear on commercially available scanning equipment or designed to be indistinguishable from the surrounding tissue. These activities are highly deceptive, use clandestine technology, and have the fingerprints of the CIA all over them.
 
It is unreasonable to expect isolated individuals receiving this treatment to furnish proof. A thorough investigation is warranted. Thanks for your time.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you very much.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Kathryn Nestor.
 
MS. NESTOR:
My name is Kathryn Nestor and I am from Pennsylvania.
 
This Commission has spoken of a long history of abuse of the human research subject. Although no one mentioned MKULTRA today, President Clinton recently apologized for this.
 
My young child and I have been used as nonconsensual test subjects. We have been subjected to COINTELPRO‑like stalking, remote neuromonitoring and electromagnetic torture, resulting in psychological and physical damage. And I won’t go into the details of that because I have four pages written in here. It is very similar to Connie’s testimony.
 
Please do not wait 70 years to investigate this. I ask Dr. Amy Gutmann to begin today. There is new work for the Commission for human subject protection on our shores. And please give us a dramatic response, Susan. And please give us a congressional hearing. Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Miriam Snyder.
 
MS. SNYDER:
Hello. My name is Miriam Snyder. I am an educator, minister, human rights advocate. I work with many people that have suffered the ramifications of unregulated deadly human research experimentation. Since I have brought this to the public, I have become a victim, too. In fact in the past I was. I have three questions I would like the Commission to answer and then I would like to submit some recommendations so that we do not have to go through this type of forum of listening, listening, and then we have to rush this serious assassination program. Human research experimentation is being used to assassinate innocent people and I think it is time that it takes much more than two minutes to rush up. I resent it. I spent my time. I listened and I ask that you listen.
 
Foremost, since Guatemala and Tuskegee experiments, it is understood that human research experimentation via particularly injections on innocent people is understood that these things are going on. I would like the Commission to address what is being done to stop the continuance of non-verifiable injections being used on people.
 
I would like to know, the Commission to address, what penalties and protections are in place for researchers. The incarceration of researchers who create deadly weapons and viruses. What is going to be done to stop the deadly created manmade viruses getting out the laboratory to human bodies? And when are we going to start incarcerating researchers? All right?
 
Number three. Who supervises energy technology, specifically electronic torture? That is a major issue. Just hold on. I waited two days. Electronic torture. All these people are here talking about they are being tortured. They are in a slow-kill program via radiation. The cleft lip babies are coming out through radiation programs. The studies show it. I have submitted documentation. We have cleft lip babies because of unregulated radiation studies. What is going to be done to stop this?
 
These people are suffering because of unregulated radiation studies, human research experiments. And the funding is immense and people are dying. What is going to be done to stop it? Okay.
 
With respect to neuroimaging, I found a tremendous amount of research regarding injection-induced seizures. Why is human research allowing experiments that allow injection-induced seizures and through electronic technology?
 
Now my recommendation. I would hope that this committee could launch a specific committee to address these issues with human rights experts, genocide specialists, people who have studied mass murders; that it is understood that these things do happen through genocide and I can give you a list of people that have documentaries on this; and to investigate the citizen complaints regarding mind control weapons, in particular energy technology via satellite; induced seizures via satellite; microwave auditory effect weapon; all government-sponsored psychological operations; microchipping through injections.
 
Above all, we seek the creation of a means for injections to be verified before entering the human body and prosecution for anyone using these deadly tactics to harm the people. And we seek compensation for all the victims who have filed affidavit after affidavit documenting the atrocities involved with unregulated and deadly human research experimentation that they have suffered as a direct result of these criminal human research and the whistle blowers who have exposed this.
 
Thank you very much and please have a forum where we don’t have to do this rush up. I waited two days and I don’t like being rushed like this, I really don’t. Thank you.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you very much.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Nigel Nicholson.
 
MR. NICHOLSON:
Hi, good evening. My name is Nigel Nicholson and I have been in a psychological coercive mind control program. This started in 2002 when I was falsely arrested, I was drugged, and I believe I was hypnotized. Soon after that, I was being harassed by the police department, along with noise campaign that was being committed by the New York City Fire Department. I mean, for a whole year, every time I left my house, I was bombarded with noise which led me to have a psychological breakdown. I have been job mobbed. I have been put into what I call an assassination-type program. I have been villainized. My friends have totally retreated from me, even though I have continuously reached out to them.
 
I have been under what I believe is neuromonitoring. When I can think of something and go outside and somebody will walk by me and repeat what I just said, I know I am not crazy. Okay? Regardless of what is being said, they made the victims of these programs to be diagnosed with a psychological illness to hide these crimes because we all know that to discredit an individual, if you give them a mental illness or diagnose them with a mental illness, no one is going to believe us. No one is going to believe you or I and this is how they are hiding these crimes.
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you, sir.
 
STAFFER:
Ms. Micheline Jones.
 
MS. JONES:
Hello, my name is Micheline Jones. I am right here from D.C. I live in public housing and I mention that because this where most of the poor people are at, especially these days with the way the economy is going.
 
I am the subject of MKULTRA mind control. I am also the subject of electromagnetic radiation and I have many videos to prove it. I have taken these videos to newspapers and to various places even including what is that CDC and everyone has just turned away as if this is hush-hush. I have had lawyers deny me assistance because they said this is too big.
 
So in research I found out that the former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney asked for reinvestigation under her resolution H.R. 1026 to reinvestigate COINTEL activities. I am constantly stalked. There is many covert activities that have followed me. Sleep deprivation, I don’t have that too much now because I force myself, clocks, radios, too much liquids at night, whatever, just to get up and get out of the house.
 
I have asked public housing from the executive director all the way down to fair hearing which is still pending right now to get me out of this place but now I am beginning to wonder would it do any good. I have relocated three or four times and I had a deputy officer or a county officer tell me this will follow you. So when they pick their subjects, this goes with you.
 
I would like all of this medical abuse to be investigated and, if possible, for you to get back with us. I didn’t know about this meeting until yesterday and I do appreciate you letting me have this time to speak. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN:
Thank you, Ms. Jones.
 
STAFFER:
Mr. Timothy White.
 
MR. WHITE:
I would like to thank the Commission for allowing the public to address these issues. And it has been a lot of information and it has been very good and enlightening. And I see I am in the right place to provide the information I have.
 
And yes, the Tuskegee experiments are still going on and the Guatemala experiments are still going on. But they are going on because of the advances in the signals technology and in cognitive neurological technology and neurophysiological experimentation in research and advances in that technology is allowing these things to happen and creating a new class of vulnerabilities for citizens who cannot protect themselves against this.
 
We provide citizens who are currently nonconsensual victims of cognitive neuroscience in neurophysiological research and experimentation which is enabled remotely through extremely low frequency computer to brain entrainment technology — This technology exists and can be verified on subjects with a high degree of accuracy, using current neuroimaging technologies.
 
Okay, this is an atrocity that has gone on for years. And like the Tuskegee experiments, it is clearly within the scope of this Commission. If there is any doubt as to the validity of these claims then this Commission can conduct its own independent investigation by using functional brain imaging techniques.
 
We ask that the Committee, just because of the existence of our organization, Freedom from Covert Harassment and Surveillance, alone we have thousands of people who have contacted us claiming to be victims of this. Our existence is justification that you should investigate this occurrence further.
 
We need test developed to determine if a citizen has been harmed by a cognitive weapon. These are cognitive weapons that somehow these people are being experimented on with. And just overall, you need to ban the unethical use of science and technology on all citizens for any reason and in any form. Thank you.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Thank you.
 
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
May I put my name on the list?
 
DR. GUTMANN:
I don’t have the list.
 
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
Well what happened was I called in and found out it would be opened up to actually be able to speak to be put on the list. And when I got here, I wasn’t informed that there was a list that I actually had to sign up. I am asking for a minute.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Yes, you may have a minute. We have about five minutes left.
 
FEMALE PARTICIPANT
Okay. Well, I will take five minutes.
 
DR. GUTMANN
No, no.
 
(Laughter.)
 
DR. GUTMANN
If there is somebody else. Okay, thank you.
 
FEMALE PARTICIPANT
I will try.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Absolutely. Thank you.
 
FEMALE PARTICIPANT
As you see, we have, actually this is a minority of us. Approximately let’s say I have spoken to probably 3,000 people. He is on probably 1,500, he is on 5,000. There is a lot of us across the U.S. And there are certain statistics I think that if you find that there is something going on wrong, that you are going on wrong, that somewhere along the line, somebody has to do an investigation. If there is a certain percentage of illness. You do an investigation. If there is a certain amount of cancers in the area, the same as Brockovich went and did the investigation, she found a certain amount. Well, we are presenting our case right now. You said you guys wanted to be in the know. We are giving you the information now so that you are in the know.
 
There is something going on. It is an electromagnetic issue and it has to do with from cell phones all the way to directed energy. And I think yesterday some of the colleagues went ahead and said that we didn’t really talk about whether there is energy weapons or not but I mean, we have thousands and thousands of documentations about energy weapons themselves and all we are asking for is an investigation on this. People are being harmed. People are being tortured and people are being killed. And I think it is a pretty important thing for a bioethics committee to look into. And all we ask today is to please do that. And mark on March first 2011 we came to you and we told you. And I don’t know how many more people. My friends are dead. Tortured to death by electronic weapons and I don’t know how many more people will die. And I hope I will be here again if you have this next year.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Thank you very much.
 
STAFFER
That is the end of the list.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Are we —
 
STAFFER:
That is the end of the list.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Okay. One minute. Thank you.
 
MALE PARTICIPANT
I am going to do the best that I can while being hurt by a national defense weapon that our country built. I love our country but I am in contact and have been with the Chief of the Department of Defense Fraud, Waste and Abuse hotline. He has worked with me and my wife for two years. And he went to the Pentagon after we were aerosoled by a jet at 150 to 200 miles per hour, that being me and my wife. That is why my face is rebuilt and she is at home taking care of a hundred head of cattle with a brain tumor. I have had three removed.
 
I guess my point would be this, is that I stood up to this program, and that would be the joint operations system that our country built with a nonlethal, less than lethal weapons system. And I am the only one known in the world, besides the people that helped build this system, to have this actual pulse on camera and have caught it. And I would like to submit that disk.
 
But I would guess that the one question I would have — It’s okay, Eli. You don’t have to beat me up with the microphone.
 
The one question I would add is first of all, I would like to submit this to you as promptly as possible and then ask each and every one of you that 90 percent of the people that approached you spoke the same way I am, scared but also spoke — They are speaking of directed energy weapons. That was phased out with a nonlethal and less than lethal programs. And we all know that. Most of you do anyways.
 
Would you please help save my life, ma’am?
 
[Audience Applause]
 
DR. GUTMANN
Please submit what you have and we will do what we can. Thank you.
 
MALE PARTICIPANT
And your name?
 
DR. GUTMANN
My name —
 
MALE PARTICIPANT
Yes, ma’am.
 
DR. GUTMANN
— is Dr. Amy Gutmann.
 
MALE PARTICIPANT
Dr. Amy Goodman, I am going to submit that to you and if I die from this, then I am quite sure somebody else will look at the evidence. Thank you for your time.
 
DR. GUTMANN
Thank you.
 
MALE PARTICIPANT
I appreciate it, ma’am.

Original Transcript URL: http://www.bioethics.gov/cms/node/225

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TRANSCRIPT: Meeting 5, Session 6

Public Comment

Date

May 18, 2011

Location

New York, N.Y.

Transcript

DR. WAGNER:  Where is Steve and Barbara? In order that we maximize the time that we have available, I think we ought to get going. This is the public comments session. You know, a couple of process issues, first of all, to remind folks that the Commission staff published an inventation prior to this meeting in the Federal Register inviting comment. I understand there was something on the order of 300 people who wish to offer comment. We’ll obviously not get 300 in the next 45 minutes, but the plan is to ask and in fact, I think responders or rather the public commentators have been notified.
  And the plan is that Mr. [WON CHUCK?] back here has the list of folks that will be offering comment. And maybe the thing to do is to just dive into that. I want to remind you before we do that the Commission of course is charged by President Obama to be looking at bioethical issues generated by novel and emerging research in biomedicine and related areas of science and technology and to promote policies and practices that assure ethical responsibility.
  And, remind you that the specific charge on this meeting has been around looking on the topic of federal standards regarding human subjects research. So with that background, and each person I believe has a minute and a half is the way we’ve been able to try and cram in as many comments as possible. So, Juan, if you’re ready for the first?
  

JUAN:  Ms. Cassandra Lewis? Hi, Ms. Lewis.

  MS. LEWIS:  Okay, thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Cassandra Lewis and I’m a targeted individual from Baltimore, Maryland. My story may sound disjointed. I’m trying to keep it within the minute and a half. I worked as a legal secretary at Hogan and Hartson in Washington D.C. It is now called Hogan Lovells.
  Attorney Jan McDavid made a client mistake that she tried to blame on me. I then refused to work for Ms. McDavid. Shortly thereafter, strange and inexplicable events occurred on my job. And after being fired, followed me to my home and to all my travels.
  Attorney Christopher J. Hagen, formerly of Hogan and Hartson, Mr. Samuel Conrad, he’s a retired security administrator of Hogan and Hartson, and Robert Johnston, who is the current firm administrator of Hogan and Lovells are responsible for my targeting.
  I believe to protect Ms. McDavid’s reputation, a phone call was made to whom and why they did this to me, I truly just speculate. Gang stalking and harassment was used to implement this nonconsensual biotechnology application that is being used on me.
  I now experience involuntary limb movements. I receive stingings. I get pains to my head, to my abdomen, to my vaginal area and to my anal area. I am receiving from a language that I read concerning this technology, it is called Medusa, developed by the Navy is being used on me.
  I get burning on my lower legs and my ankles. I get ringing in my ears that’s pitch is like they pitch it. I get pulsing sensations in my body. I get an electrical current, an electrical sensation that goes up and down through my body and can be isolated to different parts of my body.
  I get severe tingling on the soles of my feet. I’m almost done. It’s almost like being electrocuted, and the first time I experienced this was walking into a bank. I get buzzing sensations on the soles of my feet and individual toes. I also get facial manipulations, just to name a few of the things that happen to me.
  I feel as though I am being roboticized. These are very strange occurrences and I would like for all the targeted individuals in this room to stand up and to show yourself. My story is similar to a lot of these people.
 

 WOMAN 1:  Yeah.
  

JUAN:  Mr. Eric Suba?

  MR. SUBA:  Thank you. I’m a physician and cervical cancer prevention in developing countries is my life’s work. I previously outlined my concerns in written form to Valerie Bonham and to Adam Michaels.
  My concerns are regarding ongoing studies of cervical cancer prevention currently being conducted in India. These studies include scientifically gratuitous control groups of unscreened women, and it includes scientifically gratuitous measurements of cervical cancer death rates among over 100,000 Indian women who are not being provided with any cervical cancer prevention services at all.
  These studies have been funded continuously since 1997 by the NCI and by the Bill and Linda Gates Foundation. I’d like to offer a testable hypothesis that if these studies had been reviewed by any one of this afternoon’s panelists, they’d be found without exception to be unethical by each of the panelists.
  I’d also like to offer the testable hypothesis to the Commission that these ongoing Indian studies could serve as a valuable prism through which to identify improvement opportunities for human subjects protections.
  And finally, I’d like to offer my own technical consultative services to the Commission, as well as those of my colleagues in Vietnam and other developing countries, if the Commission should find a more grassroots perspective to be valuable. Thank you.
 

 JUAN:  Mr.Thelmas McClelland?
  

MR. MCCLELLAND:  I am 59 years old from New York City. I’ve been a victim of ongoing nonconsensual human subject experimentation for my entire adult life, and possibly may have been a victim since my childhood.
  I have been targeted with ongoing microwave weapons, as well as drugging with neurotoxic contaminants covertly placed on articles of clothing, as well as on other personal possessions.
  I believe my being a nonconsensual human test subject is related to the CIA’s MK Alter Behavior Modification Program that began in the 1950’s. Moreover, after I read a July 1963 CIA MK Alter Report that became unclassified in 1994, and emphasized that it would be necessary to test unwitting citizens in their ordinary day activities without their knowledge in the final stage of the testing program, I believe that I could be one of those many thousands of civilians that were unwittingly tested in the CIA’s behavior modification program.
 

 WOMAN 2:  [UNINTEL – OFF MIC].
  

MR. MCCLELLAND:  Getting the government to take action concerning acknowledgement and putting an end to unethical consensual human experimentation that has also been a part of our country’s past history is of great concern to me.
  I believe that there has been other members of my family that were victims also.
  

WOMAN 3:  Very good.
 

 JUAN:  Thank you for your courage.
 

 [APPLAUSE]
  

JUAN:  Mr. Brian Rall?
 

 WOMAN:  He’s not here.
  

JUAN:  MS. Anya Briggs?
 

 MS. BRIGGS:  My name is Anya Briggs and I am a private citizen and resident of New York City. I have been and continue to be experimented on against my will and without my permission as a human test subject and as a targeted individual forced into trauma based mind control programs.
  Because of this ongoing experimentation, torture and abuse, since 2008 and before, I have endured the following physical and psychological symptoms: extreme debilitating and chronic fatigue, weakness and dizziness for days and weeks at a time; lack of motor control as well as the sensation of being physically controlled by an unseen force.
  My left arm occasionally experiences pain and discomfort from an object of unknown origin moving under my skin and being activated somehow. I have an unusual dental filling of unknown origin on the side of one of my back upper right teeth and no memory of having this procedure done.
  And I have X-ray printouts and a signed affidavit from my dentist stating this. Said dental filling causes me sharp pain, discomfort and sensitivity.
  I have experienced extreme itching, burning and pain in my right leg that turned into an intense bright pink and then disappeared completely after several minutes. And I have photographs of this happening in real time.
  I have a stretched uterus, and yet I have never consciously and to my knowledge been pregnant. I have had equidistant sores that have appeared on both of my sub-scapularus muscles at the same time.
  I have been drugged. I’ve been abducted from my home. I’ve had guns pointed at my head. I’ve had death threats. And much, much worse, believe it or not, by being in these programs and experiments, the after effects of this have made me socially avoidant most days, and it’s extremely hard to establish relationships with people I can trust as a result of these abominations. And I thank the Committee for hearing my statements.

  JUAN:  Thank you.
 

 [APPLAUSE]

  JUAN:  Mr. Ken Rhodes?

  DR. WAGNER:  Juan, I think people are being so good about keeping the pace, and this is so stressful for many of them, we can allow them to slow down just a little bit, okay? This is important for them.
 

 MR. RHODES:  My name is Ken Rhodes from Michigan. I’m here to tell you that the use of electronic weapons and mind control is helping the United States against the American people.
  You may think this will never affect you, but there will come a day when this will affect all of you, your children, their children and every generation from this day forward.
  I’m here to speak for every person affected by these horrific crimes against humanity. I can’t go on. Thank you.

  WOMAN:  Come on. Yes you can.
 

 JUAN:  Ken, if you want to get back in line at some time and you want to finish that up, we would understand.

  WOMAN:  Could someone read it for him?
 

 DR. WAGNER:  Someone could certainly read it for him, yes.
 

 WOMAN:  Ken, I’ll read it for you.
 

 MR. RHODES:  Okay.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Thank you for doing that. And you are? I’m sorry.

  LISA BECKER:  My name is Lisa Becker.
 

 DR. WAGNER:  Thank you Lisa.
  

LISA BECKER:  I had the privilege to address you at the last Commission meting. I’m here to speak for every person affected by these horrific crimes against humanity by a tyrannical group of people committed to eugenics and population control. If you’re not part of this inside group of tyrants, you’re like all of us here today. Ask yourselves. Have you forgotten what it is to be an American and to be brought into tyranny? You will soon learn what it is to be a slave. Allowing this to continue is allowing our rights and freedoms to be taken away from all of us – one right at a time. It’s interesting how much technology exists, that would find the criminals and the perpetrators of this heinous crimes of electronic harassment and terrorist tactics, being used against innocent U.S. citizens on a daily basis. These technologies should be used for the betterment of our society, but you know what the most powerful weapon is in our arsenal that would put an end to these horrific crimes, once and for all, it is someone giving a damn and correcting the things that are taking place. We have all gone to people who took an oath to protect and serve, who have been in commissions to investigate the unethical treatment of citizens and human experimentations. We have been denied protection and service and have been ignored by commission after commission, enough is enough, this is America. We’re supposed to be better than this. We all know what Hitler did to the Jewish people. When this all comes out what the American government has done to their own people it will make Hitler look like a saint. If some of you didn’t get some morals.
  

MALE:  I’d like to object to that.
  

LISA BECKER:  Thank you but I’ll finish.
  

MALE:  He’s used person I … 14:08…
  

LISA BECKER:  Well then you don’t understand what we’re going through. If some of you don’t get some morals or conscience, you will be need, I’m sorry, I can’t read the rest of it. Thank you.
  

DR. WAGNER: Ken and Lisa, thank you very much.
  

MALE:  And also a victim, I’m 67 years old from young (inaudible)  Thank you.
  

DR. WAGNER: Thank you.
 

 MALE:  Hearing more this.
  

DR. WAGNER: Thank you. Ms. Sandra Fields.
  

SANDRA FIELDS:  In a way I’m very sorry to address you like this because I think that what you’re doing is admirable, but I’m here to represent this other group, and I am also targeted and this is my story. My name is Sandra Fields. I’m an architect, recipient of Who’s Who of Women in America achievement award and have run a successful business for over 28 years. My life and livelihood have been compromised for the last 11 years by being attacked by electro-magnetic radiation torture, and by organized stalking. I cannot live in my rent stabilized apartment in New York City as a result of this torture. I’m currently staying in motels and friends’ houses in the last year. Thousands of Americans are currently suffering from chemical, electro-magnetic, psychological and physical torture with no government relief or laws. Our servicemen, prisoners, and thousands of unknowing innocent civilians are currently being lamed, tormented and tortured as a result of military research, medical research, pharmaceutical research, physiological and psychological studies that have virtually destroyed participants’ sanity, physical well-being, reputation and privacy. Government projects like MK Ultra and Cointell Pro are rumored to be active today with no update with updated forms of surveillance and torture and technologies. In 2010 Morrison and Foerster won the right to proceed with a case against the CIA, Department of Defense and the U.S. Army for veterans’ development of multiple diseases and ailments tied to a secret testing program in which the United States military personnel were deliberately exposed to chemical and biological weapons and other toxins without informed consent. Sleep deprivation, poisoning and high frequency doses of continuous microwave pulses are inclined to increase one’s chances for mental disorders, autism, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease. The body’s immune system is broken down, their nervous system and the brain and the spinal cord are attacked and maimed. There are no laws to prevent electro-magnetic except in Maine. The Federal Government does not acknowledge these crimes. There is no literature, educational resources of assistance for victims. I would like to ask this Committee to consider an investigation into these unethical violations and a task force be created for educational and to help people who are in trouble of these situations, and I’d be honored to be help in this thing. Thank you very.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Thank you Sandra. Mr. Stephen Hopitect.
  

STEPHEN HOPITECT:  I just want to give also want to give thanks and gratitude for this Commission actually being here and being able to bear witness to our testimony to us as well. I think it’s a credit to Obama, even though I’m against a lot of his policies that he would actually create this type of Commission. I do hope that it goes beyond these walls though and actually creates some type of implementation for change. I can speak for hours about my own personal experiences and some of the more modern versions of projects that several people talked about. My harassment started back in 1997, more from a remote influencing perspective, I made contacts in different military industrial complexes, basically different agencies, I had received microwave harassment actually on and off for a number of years, where they were trying to project images of suicide and various states of basically emotional mood management. This was confirmed to me in 2001 by a contact of a national security agency. He worked in… he still, I’m much more (inaudible) at this point but I talked to him recently, he worked in communications intelligence division of NSA for 25 years and this is right after 9/11, with my doctor. When he came to meet with me, I had a part-time job at the time, and he basically was working at a kind of like, in that division he was working, he was examining different types of abuses that were going on in the NSA, and he stated to me personally that my attention fell within the realm of potential abuse, in the agency that he was investigating. At this point, he is still involved in the agency. I can provide his name and information more in private though, because I don’t want to get in trouble for over-disclosure of someone who’s still active in that agency, especially with the technology they have. Anyway, he basically also confirmed to me that what I experienced in terms of some, just the tip of the iceberg, a part of my experience is with the emotional projection, he said that that was very common and that they were using microwaves because they had taken really advanced EEG images of people of people in different emotional states, not those digital brain wave signatures, emotional clusters of people feeling different emotional states. They said that they could take those digital brain wave signatures, piggyback on a certain bandwidth of microwaves as a carrier wave and they can target people worldwide without need for a local transmitter. He confirmed all that to me and said they used satellite to target anybody they want and it’s a very common procedure within this portion of NSA. Which is horrendous that they actually let this going on. So I think the idea of the non-consensual abuse needs to be extended to more the covert military establishment and then later on, 2003, when I was getting more advanced projections were like multi-layered not just from my conscious feelings but into my unconscious, he said that they were trying to fine tune their projections on me to see how I could block it out, because I work more in the consciousness field of meditation, alternative spirituality, so I do different techniques to tell people to block out some of these frequencies by taking control of their own bio-platonic fields. I’ve also made contact with many scientists over the years, undergone scientists who used to work in various intelligence areas, I’ve also confirmed this and much much beyond technologies, where they use longitudinal electro-magnetic wave technologies. Technology that Tessler first developed, which also could be used in alternative healing, I’m also aware, we have a friend in upstate who’s been curing people of different illnesses using this technology but he worked in the Pentagon for decades and confirmed some of this technology is also being used for more of the nefarious activities. I can go on for hours, but I’ll probably provide written testimony. Thank you.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Rodney Bittle. Mr. Rodney Bittle?
  

RODNEY BITTLE:  Hello, Ladies and gentlemen and the Committee. I’m here today representing an organization, also myself, under the technological advancements of injustices, whether it be medical or military. I’ve been under attack for some 25 years, mentally and physical abuse, psychological abuse, pornography, also have all these negative, as this gentlemen was talking about, suicidal and mental put through tortuous things such as mental abuse caused by a car accident, so maybe one of your family members dying, maybe your sister or your brother, Committee members I ask you to think for a second and acknowledge that this does happen, and it is relevant to today and it is relevant to the bio-ethical issue committee and one thing that I would like to mention that might give you some insight to just how detailed and how powerful this is. I was in my living room one day and this computer came in, the interface of this computer, and it said something to me about cause I was called satanic and anti-Christ for the ugly, nasty evil torture they was putting me through. It dropped a program into me and this would have been the military side of this computer I’m sure, that was martial arts technique that I performed to exact precision where I picked up my coffee table in my living room with my leg, wrapped it around it, smashed it into the wall. If you don’t think these are detailed, that they don’t get information from every individual that we’re talking about, his is how detailed and how powerful these programs can be, anyone here could be manipulated at any time. Do not think anyone is above it. We need regulations, we need laws, we need people to look into these regulations. Human experimental is going on for years. What you were talking about earlier, I appreciate the Committee but what we’re talking about is so high-tech and advanced, we’re not talking hospitals, we’re not talking people in psych wards, but it does include those. We’re talking high tech warfare here. We’re talking technological advancement beyond the human comprehension of the mind. We’re way, way behind the comprehension of the mind, that’s why they’re so far ahead, that’s far they can get away with it, there’s no regulations, no laws against this type of human experimental. Whether it’s in the United States of America that’s happened, these corporations are outside that are outside of the United States of America producing these weaponry and doing these studies, we need regulations. It’s way above, I believe, possibly pharmaceutical companies are helping with this research, backing it, there’s no regulation on it, they’re the big money people. You know, I didn’t realize you guys are regulating that stuff, but there’s big money in this medical research. I think they’re buying it and selling it and they’re killing us, they’re killing you.
  

DR. WAGNER:  We appreciate your story, because I think you can talk to that first-hand, some of these broader allegations, maybe I’ve got the crux of what your concern is. Okay? Thank you.
  

MALE:  (INAUDIBLE) 
  

DR. WAGNER: You bet. Thank you. Mr. Derrick Robinson.
  

DERRICK ROBINSON: Good afternoon and thank you for this opportunity. Good afternoon to the Commission and I thank you for this opportunity to speak to you this afternoon. My name is Derrick Robinson and I’m President of an organization called Freedom from (inaudible) 24:32 Harassment and Surveillance and I represent many of the people that are in this room today, as well as hundreds of those across the U.S., and millions, many thousands across the U.S. who are not in our organization, who are being targeted without their knowledge, as well as those world-wide, millions, thousands, I’m speaking of thousands of people here, in China, who sent me their statement to give to you. I’ve heard a lot this afternoon about IOB’s, about ethics vs., sorry my thoughts aren’t coming together right now. But anyway, but what we want to express to you is that human experimentation by this government is happening today, that there are many thousands of people, whether they’re realizing it or not, are being affected, and that we would like to express to you that this is a situation that needs to be addressed by a task force, by a commission, because we are not hearing, because the government is not hearing from those who are being victimized by the experimentation. What you are speaking about tonight is very relevant in terms of those who are being experimented on, but what about feedback from those who are being experimented on who have no place to go, who need a voice, who are suffering like these people here, who are suffering like those across this country, and there are, what you’re hearing tonight is just a minuscule amount of what I hear on a daily basis. This is a widespread government program that is non-consensual that is affecting many, many thousands and it’s growing daily. And the Commission, I would hope would express to Barrack Obama that non-consensual federally funded human research programs are going on and need to be addressed, and also the victims of those programs need a way to file a complaint, to talk to a Commission, to talk to a task force about what is happening to them. Thank you.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Robert LeBudier.
  

ROBERT LEBUDIER: Thank you for having me. My name is Robert LeBudier. I’m an eye witness and victim that people are tampering with and retaliating against and this is my public comment concerning non compliance of bio-ethics and other codes of ethics. These non compliances are a grave preplanned, premeditated breach of international conventions, and are intentional heinous atrocious, war crimes against humanity, domestic terrorism, domestic espionage and genocide. We the victims are a group of U.S. nations that are getting directly affected to the extent of attempted murder, that is genocide. The means and methods that are being abused are electronics and directed energy that unlawfully harness human subjects, unlawful experiments, research and other exercise, the unlawful practicing and patterning of organized war crimes, the means are electro-magnetic, radio frequency, cyclotronic fields, voice to skull techniques and other energy weapons that harness unwilling humans against our will, and criminally conspires against our rights. They’re used to (inaudible) is one of the means of unlawful surveillance with criminal intent to terrorize, injury, harass, intimidate and murder. That’s called stalking with the same intent. Also., unlawful human service (inaudible) 28:27 that steals an individual’s bio-energy signature through signaling splashing, unwilling human subjects, then using synthetic telepathy, that’s a theft of human intangible property, and other directed energies causing physical and mental pain, suffering and trauma. These perpetrators torture victims in their physical control. This is cruel, unusual treatment and terroristic hate crime that damages the subject’s health, finances, dignity, employability, reputation and human property while disrupting our mental facilities. Where is the equal protection of the law that is constitutionally ours? Is it not unethical to keep that from us? Our country’s government helped develop these technologies and they are forbidden to use on U.S. nations. That is law. Do not execute laws concerning these crimes is seditious conspiracy and treason. These unlawful acts are in direct violation of UN General Assembly resolutions, international humanitarian laws and a slew of U.S. laws and is completely unethical and irresponsible. WE rightly seek disclosure through prosecution. Thank you for having me. Good day.
 

DR. WAGNER:   MS. Lynn Barrinburg?
 

LYNN BARRINBURG: I’m Lynn Barringburg, and I had prepared a commentary but I find I’m not going to give it. I couldn’t put it together in my head, for 90 seconds. I’m another person who’s being used for non consensual human experimentation. Stanford Research Institute, Lockheed Martin, and UC Berkeley, are the criminal organizations and university that are involved in this. I can’t speak publicly. Anyway, there are no ethics, there’s no morality, rules, regulations, they’re able to side step an IRB, Institutional Review Board, for god sakes. I mean, there’s a lot going on, you people don’t know about. You know nothing and it’s coming your way. You know. These nanotechnology institutes that are attached to national laboratories, UC Berkeley has its own molecular foundry, you need to look into this stuff because it’s going mainstream, it’s not just us. You’re going to be affected, your loved ones, your children, your grand-children, you need to take a look at what’s going on here. We may not be the most eloquent speakers, but don’t thoroughly discount us.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Mr. Timothy White. Okay. Mr. Ted Gunderson.  I’d like to point Mr. Gunderson is not here, is that the.
  

MALE:  Yeah, I was that I couldn’t speak for him. I was told I could and then they told me today I couldn’t.
  

DR. WAGNER:  I’d be happy to, would you prefer to speak for him? That’s fine.
  

MALE:  I’m going to say something.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Go for it.
  

MALE:   Ted Gunderson.
  

DR. WAGNER:  And your name? I’m sorry.
  

PETER ROSENHOME:  I’m Peter Rosenhome. Ted Gunderson was in charge of the FBI of Los Angeles and we had written up a speech but I was told I couldn’t present it, so I don’t have it.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Oh.
  PETER ROSENHOME: But he basically says that this is all going down, mind control is destroying our nation, and stuff like that. Honestly I was told I couldn’t do it, so I’m not prepared. But Ted was a top FBI agent, and he would like to support us.
  

Dr. WAGNER:  Okay.
  

PETER ROSENHOME: Okay.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Thank you very much. Those are the names that we had scheduled for the microphone.. please stay there. Are there others from the audience that we’ve got, a few more minutes just to… Would you just rather just give us something rather than speak, is that your?
  

FEMALE:  No, I would like to speak.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Please go to the microphone. Identify yourself.
  

LESLIE CRAWFORD:  Hello, everyone, my name is Leslie Crawford. I’m here from the State of Michigan. I wanted to speak about bio-technology applications being utilized on my person. I have medical reports showing eye damage being done to my eyes, my eyes does not have a mirror image, I also have nano wiring inside my eyes, I have pictures of the actual implants from the eye doctor, once enlarging the nano implants, you will see a copy of the actual particles in my eyes. I have CAT scans in my eyes and PETs showing wiring, nano wiring in my head. This is my brain, it is straight from the right side to the left side of my head. I also have implants in my chin, in the chin region on both sides, one side shows a wire, the other side shows the actual implant. Implant particle devices coming down through here, projectiles of the nano particles on the side of my head, enlarged pictures. These crimes is happening in America, this is a domestic problem, not only international, the victims is not being just victimized individually, we are being victimized and our family members as well. Gang stalking tactics and harassment was utilized to implement us into the program unconventionally.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Leslie, I think your comments reinforce much of what we’ve heard, and if you don’t mind, I’d like to make room for others at the microphone now since it seems to be reinforcing. Juan, I’d like you to pick some of these gentlemen right here.
  

FEMALE:  She’s been waiting.
  

DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry, who’s been waiting? Oh yeah, please.
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN:  My name is Virginia Vervain.
  

DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry. Eugenia?
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN: Eugenia Vervain. Yes. I think from this Commission and this panel but ethics there were most talk about pharmaceutical research, but I haven’t heard anyone talking about a psychotronic weaponry, it’s a bio-electronic magnetic weaponry research. Who in this panel are familiar with the psychotronic weaponry, raise your hand please? Who of you know about psychotronic weapons? Any one of  you?
  

MALE:  You’re saying psychotronic.
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN:  Psychotronic bio electro-magnetic weapons, are you familiar with that?
  

DR. WAGNER:  Not at all.
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN:  No, okay, in this audience, is anybody familiar with the psychotronic weapon?
  

FEMALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes. Yes.
  

MALE AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes. Yes.
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN:   Okay, the audience is familiar with that and I think that in order for a panel or a commission to be able to help this problem and this issue will have to have more knowledge on what psychotronic weapons are. I am physically leashed from my neck to the electro-magnetic power of one of the weapons that is being used against me, I get tortured day and night, with (inaudible) dreams that I don’t want in my head. And for days my body they prod with neurological system so they do anything to my body, sometimes it’s painful, sometimes it makes me sick, that’s one of [inaudible], sometimes I feel I’m going to have a heart attack, they do all kinds of things like pulsating with the electromagnetic frequencies, they use a program called “Metal Reality” that makes them feel that they are writing there in front of you and as you know, electricity travels as fast as light and you know who fast that travels, right? How fast does it travel?
  

DR. WAGNER:  186,000 a second, yes. I’ll tell you what, though, we do need to hear…
  

EUGENIA VERVAIN:  So we appreciate if you can become more aware and read the internet, this comes from [inaudible] on psychotronic weapons so that you will probably be able to help us after you have a better knowledge of what these weapons are and what these weapons do, thank you very much.
  

DR. WAGNER: Thank you for your patience.
  

KEVIN CANADA:     Hi, my name is Kevin Canada, and I can’t say it’s a joy to be here because I would much rather be somewhere else besides here, I’d rather be not a targeted individual, which I have been for the past 8 years. I believe my nightmare started at a V.A. hospital. Nineteen-ninety-eight I got very involved in some political stuff and I won’t go in to the details but I became what’s called a “targeted individual” and my life has changed unbelievably, gang stalking, electromagnetic weapons, directed energy weapons, some of these people even came to my house and jury-rigged electricity and I’m being electrocuted and everything. My appliances, I’ve been told that they can turn your appliances into weapons against you. So it’s become a nightmare, I think I’ve been implanted at a V.A. hospital, I don't know, I’m trying to figure it out, I know I’m being watched everywhere I go, surveilled, tracked like an animal. We need help. We need to be able to go someplace to find out if we have been implanted, what kind of technology are they using against us, we have nothing but be, try to get involved, for me to get involved to make this a better country, and for that we’ve stepped on some toes and now we’re targeted individuals and I’m sure most of the people here, innocent, are being targeted for reasons they really don’t know. So we need your help and I think the suggestion of having a T.I. on this Commission is a great suggestion. We need somebody who knows what’s happening to us helping us. But we need the technology to find out if we’ve been implanted and, because these intelligence agencies can get to any doctor, they can get to anybody that we see who might possibly help us, lawyers, attorneys, cops, you name it, they use it to harass us and attack us and we need your help.
  

DR. WAGNER: Thank you, Kevin.
  

ROSE KAPINSKY:      Hello, I’m Rose Kapinsky from Madison, Wisconsin. I know you would like to hear a little bit about my story. Often when I’m with people the perpetrators leave me alone, perhaps to make it look like it’s my imagination and then often when I am alone, they start hurting me, they start fatiguing me. I wanted to say quickly to help the light bulb go off for you, there’s always been a continual mysterious missing amounts of billions or trillions in the pentagon budget and try to think where that money might be going. There has been a story about oh the naughty contractors charging $100 for a hammer. I believe that may be a cover story. I think that, as you were saying, I think that the contractors for the Pentagon have gotten very proliferative. That’s not what you were saying, but you were talking about shutting down or dealing with egregious or abusive situations in research and I want to say, think about it for a minute. You’re very intelligent. Do you think, in the past things have gone on. Do you think there is nothing going on right now? Really? Zero? Zero, zilcho? Come on. That would be foolish, that would be, excuse me, that would be somewhat stupid. I’m sorry, that would be deluded and read Golachek, In the Name of Science, to hear about the history. Read current things like Nick Beggich, Controlling the Human Mind, subtitle, Tools For Political Control, or Tools for Peak Performance. And again, I think it’s just an issue of money, money, money and it’s gotten out of control.
  DR. WAGNER:  I think this going to be our last, I think this is going to be our last one. I’ll tell you what, is there a woman right behind you? We’ll take you also. Why don’t we do these last two questions, ok?
  

LILLIANA CONNOR:    My name is Lilliana Connor, and I have also been subjected to these technologies. I think that the Commission is studying the issue of informed consent and that is a right, a human right that we all should have, even if these are classified operations, all persons should have the right of informed consent so that they could either decline participating in such studies, or otherwise opt out if they are informed at a later date that they have been subject to these studies. And non-consensual experimentation is a total violation of human rights. It should be outlawed, you know, any non-consensual experimentation. People should not have to be subjected like this and it would be important if you could recommend to President Obama to change the regulation of informed consent to include even classified operations on persons, and to outlaw and forever ban any non-consensual experimentation in the United States.
  

DR. WAGNER: Thank you. By the way I did not get your name?
  

LILLIANA CONNOR:  Lilliana Connor.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Lilliana Connor. Thank you.
  

LETICIA PETERS:  Hello, my name is Leticia Peters from Trenton, New Jersey. I spoke last time in March and since then..
  

DR. WAGNER:  Yeah…
  

LETICIA PETERS:   And since then my life has gone downward. And it’s a shame that we are Americans and we just want to be treated like Americans and we are part of a non-consensual human experimentation which uses highly advanced electronic technology without our informed consent or knowledge. And we are speaking for thousands of Americans citizens. We do not want an apology, we want justice and we want justice now. I am requesting that the Presidential Commission conduct an investigative hearing on non-consensual human experimentation and I do have credible evidence I’m submitting, 1158 videos and pictures that’s been occurring for the last two years. I’m also presenting 10 attachments which includes my 14-page public comment, plus Robert S. public comments, testimonies from Queen, Ottawa, three pages of testimony for Cindy Golmann. I have a 16 page letter from Japan for the Technological Crime Victims Network. Also I have a prayer because we really need prayer. This country needs prayer because so many people have died or lost their lives and we just want justice. And I just would like to come forward to submit all this information.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Please feel free to give it to Val right here. I think with that we do need to wrap. It’s difficult to know how to respond to this session. Obviously there is deep concern and ..
  

WOMAN:  I forgot to say that the biggest thing we need to do is, please, I’m begging you, get over intimidation brought down on you by the Department of Defense.
  

DR. WAGNER:    Thank you. Thank you all for your input.
  

MAN: In the list, he didn’t actually, he was. I would like to talk to him.
  

WOMAN:  I would like to talk as well.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Val, how many were on … we really got those on the list. I’m so sorry. I tell you what, we do have ways to submit through the website. Is that correct? So we do get a chance to read that but you’re going to remind me what the site address is for everybody.
  

VAL:  It’s right up there.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Oh, it’s right up there. So you can submit and you must, please do submit on that, ok. So thank you. I think we’re…
  

MAN:   Just one second. for purpose. Did you ever see my letter?
  

WOMAN:   We really…
  

MAN:     Did you receive my letter miss.
  

WOMAN:   Yes, we did.
  

MAN:     You received it. I would like to have the answer. Yes.
  

WOMAN: We have answered. We do have your list.
  

MAN:   Have you received my letters?
  

WOMAN:  Yes, yes.
  

MAN:  You received it.
  

WOMAN:  Yes.
  

MAN:    What do you do in this regard? Did you receive my phone calls?
  

DR. WAGNER:  Why don’t… your name sir? Edward….
  

EDWARD KATZ:  Katz. KATZ.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Why don’t we let… if we can… I was just going to say, if I would allow some time to let you finish, and if I could, if the Commission would indulge a little extra time in our agenda, will that satisfy your need?
  

EDWARD KATZ:     Yes.
  

DR. WAGNER:  Thank you sir. You have a minute and  a half, please.
  

WOMAN:  Could we ask other people to …
  

DR. WAGNER:    We need others to be seated though please. Everyone seated.
  

EDWARD KATZ: And this gentleman, who is on the Commission.
  

DR. WAGNER:  OK, we need the microphone, we need the microphone to you. You have..
  

EDWARD KATZ:  You’re afraid to talk to me.
  

DR. WAGNER:  No, no, no.
  

EDWARD KATZ: Yes you are.
  

DR. WAGNER:  I’m sorry, I’d asked you, please, to, I’ll be happy to give you time in front of the Commission, it doesn’t sound like that’s what you want.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  I want
  

DR. WAGNER:     OK, why don’t you take the microphone and we’ll give you a minute and a half like everyone else. You need the microphone so we can have a record. And please give us your name again.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  My name is Edward Katz
  

DR. WAGNER:  Edward…. Ok. Calmly please. Tell us your story, or tell us your comment, please.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  Would it send in the ma… name Mrs. Emmy Guttmann.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  Horrifying letter, which has been supported actually by the video statement.
  

DR. WAGNER: Oh my.
  

EDWARD KATZ:   This video statement shows astrophysical torture by means of brain implants. All my family received, why we moved to California, settled right next to the Stanford research, including my children.
  

WOMAN:  Two boys.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  Two boys been implanted in optic nerves and blah, blah, blah. Anyway. Mrs. Barbara Boxer requested headquarter F.B.I. to provide information in this regards and the F.B.I. told us what we are on the experiment. Then the Department of Justice, Mr. Holder, told us what we have to learn how to live with that. With torture. With robbery and that is on tape and Mrs. Gutmann have this tape and we beg you for many times, please call Obama, stop torture. Obama can stop torture. Did you call? Did you call Obama, we’re asking you, stop torture, physical torture, please.
  

WOMAN: Stop the torture.
  

DR. WAGNER: Please, we can..
  

EDWARD KATZ:    Inhumane torture. Just take a look this picture of people.
  

WOMAN:  I, I—
  

EDWARD KATZ:  OK, thank you very much.
  

EDWARD KATZ:  Especially we came from Soviet Union, especially we came from the Communist Bloc and are here for the freedom and what they did to my babies.
  

DR. WAGNER:  It’s obviously a horrific story and I …
  

WOMAN:  [inaudible] for Mrs. Gutmann, please sir.
  

DR. WAGNER:  I think Val can take it, she’s our head staff person. Thank you very much.
  

EDWARD KATZ:   [inaudible] many, many times [inaudible].
  

DR. WAGNER:    I think you for your civility in ….
  

EDWARD KATZ:   I think. 
  

DR. WAGNER: I thank you for your civility in presenting to us. And I think with that we should stand adjourned. Thank you all very, very much. Have a good day.
  

AMY GUTMANN:  Thank you all very, very much.
  

JAMES WAGNER: Goodbye.


[END]

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For behold, the wicked bend the bow,

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