Start log: Karla Turner - class #7 - Session #4 - 9p.m. EDT/ 6p.m. PDT.4-26-95

ThunderK: And this will be my first time to speak at the Omega conference, so I'm really excited...

Wolflady: Karla what about N.Y. City

ThunderK: Hey, TA! Glad to have you back with us! BTW, who are you this evening? I don't have any plans right now for NYC...

Course TA: I'm Dee777. I'm sitting in for Jim who is babysitting at home this evening.

ThunderK: although I did speak there a couple of years ago and met many intriguing folks in ufology out there. Thanks, Dee, for taking care of the business tonight! It's already a few minutes after time for class to start, and since this is our last session I want to relax the agenda a bit and give each member a chance to make a statement about the phenomenon of species transformation, BUT, I will ask that each of you do your best to be concise, specific and to avoid delving into the strictly personal events you've experienced unless they relate directly to our topic, AND, to avoid restating anything you've already posted in detail in our folder. If there is some change or transformation occurring, as many of us have come to feel then surely we can delineate some of the real evidence that leads us to these ideas and the specifics can then be discussed by all of us. So, if you're willing to go along with this, let's give it a shot! Since I was late getting logged on, however, I don't have a complete list of the present members. Other than Kent, Jon, Dee, and UFO 11, who else is here? ga

Toneyterry: Toney

BMosley288: Me, BMosley

WhteLotus1: here

Wolflady: wolflady

Phikent: here

ThunderK: Thanks, folks, that helps a lot. Is anyone willing to begin? ga

JONWIL: !

ThunderK: OK, Jon, ga

Phikent: !

Toneyterry: !

BMosley288: !

JONWIL: I'd like to propose a notion for evidence of transformation that might at first seem a bit unusual, & that is this radical reactionary swing back to conservatism & fundamentalism ...now occuring in America. Seems to me like a fear reaction to change. ga

ThunderK: A good starting point!...

BMosley288: Of course it is and that's all it is.

ThunderK: I think we're all aware of this reactionary movement in many areas but is this the first time we've seen such a thing in the history we possess? In other words, how does such a swing indicate a transformation? ga

UFO ll: !

ThunderK: Jon, do you want to respond first? ga

JONWIL: To me it seems a knee-jerk reaction to changing views. ga

ThunderK: Possibly, but if so, this certainly isn't a new response in human history, is it? ga

JONWIL: Not at all. But history also shows that there's an adverse reaction to any new concept for example, discovering that the world is not the center of the universe, that man is capable of space travel, etc. There is always negative outcry first before its proven true. ga

ThunderK: I would agree with this idea, and I think a few of your classmates want to comment. Kent, I think you were first in line, so please ga

Phikent: We'll it's intellectualism that's gonna go bye bye, experience is all there is. ga

ThunderK: Kent, please use the protocol so we'll know when you're finished, ok? Your reply begs the question, I believe can you be more specific so we can follow your ideas? ga

Phikent: there is no such a thing as empirical proof. ga

ThunderK: Of what? ga

Phikent: of a reason and fact. intuition dawns now. ga

ThunderK: I don't agree with that! I do think we have rational faculties that are responsible for all our perceptions, and the presence of our perceptions is certainly proof that they, at least, exist. Is this what you meant by 'experience is everything'? ga

Phikent: the rational is only binary, the ability to argue ga

WhteLotus1: !

ThunderK: Toney, you're next, so please ga

Toneyterry: okay. Not to sound "celestine" but I have many, many incredible synchronicities happening. I dont know what they mean but I feel that they are changing my awareness of things and one of these is the realization of the alien presense.ga

ThunderK: For those who may not know what 'synchronicity' means, it's a term coined by Jung to identify coincidences of events that 'should' not have any objective correlation but which do prove to show a 'behind thescenes' correspondence. For instance, a woman goes shopping and decides for no apparent reason to buy a black dress and three days later a family member dies and the woman needs the black dress for the funeral. In terms of the alien abduction/presence, I know from personal experiences, too, that several synchronistic events have come to light as we delved into our alien-related events some of them stretching back many years, as if some bigger, unseen plan has been at work all along and has only recently come to fruition in the correspondence of certain events. Perhaps one of the signs of change may indeed be the expanding number of synchronistic events many, many abductees experience, as you've said. Bob, I think you were next, so you can either make your own statement or reply to what has already been said. ga

BMosley288: Well I certainly don't think rational thinking is going anywhere but up...and synchronicity is just the way the universe works and focusing is the way to be aware of it. But about transformation you were saying a few sessions ago about your wishful thinking about it may I mention mine? I think the physical body is going to be transformed by genetic manipulation to be less deseased and to live much longer, and with the improved body along will follow naturaly an improvement of the consciousness. ga

ThunderK: It's my feeling, too, that if this transformation is occurring, we surely wouldn't lose the advantages we've already acquired as part of our species survival, such as our intellectual capacities, but that it would remain intact and would indeed expand along with the other faculties, i.e. intuition, telepathy, perhaps increased psychokinetics, etc. and if our mentality changes/increases, then I would think our physical form would also reflect such changes, as you've indicated. UFO 11, you're next and may either comment on the foregoing or add your own statement. ga

UFO ll: i was thinking about what Jon said.......\

ThunderK: and? ga

UFO ll: what ever happend to the people when jesus came?

ThunderK: Are you still there, UFO 11? I don't understand your question. Can you be specific? Which people, for example? ga

UFO ll: they knew he was coming and some still didnt believe. ga

ThunderK: OK, I get your question now, but I don't see how it relates to our discussion. ga

UFO ll: new things.....changes. ga

ThunderK: Oh, OK, but still I'm confused about your thoughts here. Maybe we can discuss this later? WhiteLotus, you're next on the list, so ga

WhteLotus1: nada...ga

ThunderK: OK, Kent, ga

UFO ll: we know its coming but some still dont believe

UFO ll: oop sorry

ThunderK: Kent, please ga.

Phikent: what we might be talking about is a spiritualization which may be the abandonment of the physical which was never primary anyway. ga

ThunderK: May I argue this? If the physical was never primary, why does it exist? ga

Phikent: A long time ago we "fell" into protoplasm ga

ThunderK: So, doesn't protoplasm exist? And how do you know we 'fell'? Couldn't it be that "God" however we may think of the concept, deliberately chose to work through the physical? If so, then it certainly has a great and primary importance if not, then "God" made a big mistake. Which is it? ga

Phikent: The physical is an illusion ga

ThunderK: Prove it! ga

Phikent: there ain't no such thing as a proof that will hold up ga

ThunderK: Just trying to stretch a point... Bob, I think you wanted to comment next, so ga!

BMosley288: Could we be getting a question here about the messianic reappearance? And this is a good question I think UFO, but should we anticipate an individual to appear as perhaps predicted that will embody the aspects of this transformation as perhaps Jesus did for the change that occured in his time? ga

ThunderK: Such predictions and rumors have abounded for a while now with certain individuals having been identified, their place & time of birth, etc. but in many of these cases, the predictions have pointed to not Christ but AntiChrist and of course, if such a thing is coming, we won't know until afterward. I might add that in quite a few abduction events a figure identifying itself as Jesus has shown up and interacted with abductees sometimes by imparting spiritual statements, but not always. In one case I've investigated, in fact, the abductee consciously remembered seeing...\ Jesus on the cross, and then Jesus got off the cross and came to the man and kissed him. The man was in an awestricken state for several days afterwards but when he investigated this event under regressive hypnosis the image of Jesus vanished and what he saw then was a typical reptoid, who didn't kiss him but raped him instead. In another case, "Jesus" came into the abductee's room with a number of grays and told the abductee that the grays 'worked' for him and that they were his angels. The catch in ths case was that Jesus was blond and blue-eyed, which of course isn't consistent with what we know of the historical figure. Bob, please ga

Phikent: !

BMosley288: Let me bow out except to say, Kent, material may be an illusion but it is too often so appealing. ga

ThunderK: Dee, you're next! ga

Course TA: I don't see the transformation as being recent at all, but the next step in many steps taken by mankind throughout his history. In each generation, mankind was forced to do more...to survive...to move onward to invent things,...then to think more about God, to create things for his environment... to forge outward... to move into new countries... to cross the oceans... and each generation there would be the exception that would stand out from the crowd.. such as Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, artists, inventors, great Saints.. always society moving outward.. then we crossed the ocean and gradually filled up the land. At the same time, our brains were developing...evolution if you
will, the fittest always creating the next generation. Then we filled up the land... women were forced to take a greater role more was expected of everyone, and humans brains continued to increase in intellect, and as well in wondering the whys of things. Then when the land was filled almost to capacity, and the land began to deteriorate mankind is again looking for a way to survive. Mankind then looks outward... into outer space... and into inner space... Thus the seeming transformation. ga...

ThunderK: And this is indeed the evolutionary course we've seen so far! I think the crucial point here involves two things. first, the impetus for change and second the fact that our transformation is not the first we've experienced and I didn't mean to imply that it was so we need perhaps to think about what the impetus this time may be, if there is a specific cause, or if this is just the way evolution has always worked and will continue! Wolflady we haven't heard from you tonight, and I would very much like to. Any comments? ga

Wolflady: yes

ThunderK: ga

Wolflady: My belief is that we have for thousands a years co-exist with other beings on this planet . I am not sure what the full purpose is but i do know that more and more people are becoming Awakened to beliefs that we are not alone ga

ThunderK: When it comes to matters of belief, we don't require external evidence, I understand but when it comes to matters of knowledge, surely we must be able to identify the reasons for the things we think we are learning, would you agree? ga

Wolflady: YES ga

ThunderK: UFO 11, your comment? ga

UFO ll: ahhh

ThunderK: Is that the comment? ga

UFO ll: mary was pregnet like many abductees were, jesus was missing between 12 & 33....

ThunderK: Not necessarily!

UFO ll: & he had many of the same powers that ETs do, he rose ffrom the dead and ascended into what they say is heaven. so did mary. what do you think of it?

ThunderK: If one accepts the Bible as absolutely true, that is the case, but the Bible hasn't been 'verified' to universal acceptance and that's a matter for a completely different discussion. Kent, your comments? ga

Phikent: In the "Book of Bremen" pre-man is identified by the ancients as the "Firstborn" so perhaps we can better understand both our origins and also "the return ga

ThunderK: A comment quickly for UFO 11, then I'll respond. Some aliens have claimed to have manufactured Jesus as an instrument for exerting social controls...

UFO ll: heard that once

ThunderK: but of course we know that the aliens have often lied in their statements...

UFO ll: or twice

ThunderK: Now, Kent, you've brought up a remarkably close-to-home point. I will post a longer message in the folder, concerning a VR event I was shown a couple of years ago, referring to exactly this scenario. Hope you'll have a look at it tomorrow! Our time has run out a few minutes ago, so we'll close the session for tonight, but I will continue to use the folder for the next week and I hope we can all get our ideas spelled out more clearly there! I don't know when my next class will be scheduled as I'm about to be doing a lot of travel, but ISCNI will let you know when the next class will begin. Please don't forget the folder, gang, and thanks very very much for all you've contributed! See you in the folder! Bye for now

Toneyterry: Thank U Karla

Course TA: Thanks Karla for an excellent discussion.

Wolflady: Goodbye Karla Thanks

Phikent: thanks Karla

UFO ll: thanks karla... :) bye

BMosley288: Thanks Karla, enjoyed the class and look forward to the next and someday meeting you.

ThunderK: I would love to meet you all face to face! Let's hope it can happen. Maybe the ISCNI should plan a reunion or some conference? \

UFO ll: cool

ThunderK: If you like the idea, let's pass it along to Michael! Bye, all!

End log. Karla Turner - Class #7 - Session #4 - 9:15 p.m. CDT. 4-26-95

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