AIC would like to thank Michael Lindemann and CNI News for their generous contribution of the following:
An Online Chat With Karla Turner Part II
(During the chat Karla 's nickname is: "ThunderK")
Date: Mon, Feb 13, 1995 4:39 PM EST
Subj: Log of Session #2, 2/8/95
To: IreneR757, DWG 94, Zazer, UFOBOB51, KnoSys, Thetawolf, Toneyterry, Bandrsntch, Brags, TX90829, Terra Alta, CloudRider, Density 4, Barb Byrd, Dee777, Pluducat 8, EXphyle, ANAJAC, Purpleblus, ISCNIMikeL, ThunderK
Well, it's not perfect, but it's the best we can do for the time being. Below is a log file for the above-referenced class session. It was donated by Irene (thanks!), who unfortunately got booted off the system briefly, so the log has some 'missing time' during that period. If anyone has a log that can fill in the missing part, please send it to me and I will send it on to anyone who wants it. We would like to have a complete log file in any event for our records. Thanks for your help, and for your patience.
- Jim Griffith
Karla Turner Class, session #2
2/8/95 6:07:16 PM Opening "Chat Log 2/8/95" for recording.
ThunderK : Anyone want to jump in? Type ? and I'll respond. Open ga
Bandrsntch : ?
ThunderK : Ga, Mitch.
Barb Byrd : ?
Bandrsntch : What is the "Jungian" approach?
ThunderK : OK. Jung's analog of the human psyche posited the existence of certain primal 'archetypes' inherent in our, for want of a more precise term, psychic structure and when the UFO question arose, there were various explanations and theories pursued including, as is the case still today, the 'psychological' explanation or explanations, actually, of which the Jungian approach was one application. I'll be happy to delve more into this in the class folder during the week if you'd like. Do you have more to add, Mitch? ga
Bandrsntch : Recent ufo literature seems to be going in this direction. Your thought. ga
ThunderK : My thought? A waste of time, until the separate, physical existence of these entities is disproven conclusively. For two reasons: first, there is abundant and weighty evidence for the phenomena's reality, and also because physically real aliens, objectively speaking, I think, provides the simplest, most straightforward plausible explanation to fit the current data. That is supposed to be the scientific standard, but curiously that standard is not evenly applied when it comes to ufology. Barb, I think you wanted to add something, so please ga.
Barb Byrd : You referred to some findings about the soul, and I'm curious about that but perhaps since time is limited, you'd prefer to do so in the folder. ga
ThunderK : Yes, that's a very important topic, so much so that we could easily devote an entire evening to it! Briefly, I can say that a small but growing number of abduction reports contain details of alien comments/actions that reference the human soul in a way that I think should make us very curious as to their interest here. ga
(Ed. note: For AIC members. I can't be sure, but I think Karla is refering to "Whitley Strieber" as he was the first one to publish abduction accounts that referenced the human soul. He released that material at about the same time that Karla conducted these classes. Again, I cannot be sure whether it's the Strieber material she is refering to. John Velez)
ThunderK : Barb, ga?
Barb Byrd : I have nothing more. ga
ThunderK : OK. I will go into this more in the folder if anyone would like to do so. GA, Irene.
IreneR757 : I was twice shown this and I wonder why I was shown, but more importantly why they were interested and what technology they have to do this. I find this very disconcerting. ga
ThunderK : Me too, hopefully we can get into this discussion later in the class, but for now let's start with the scheduled discussion topics. I'll keep track of Density 4 being next and each of you as you signal so after you, Density 4, I'll have a brief opening for the topics tonight. ga, Density.
Density 4 : Just a brief note regarding Lazar's allegations that he read an "alien" book which described us humans as "containers" Containers of what? souls? ga
ThunderK : Possibly, sure, but not necessarily 'just' that. Actually, that is a rather frequent term reported from encounters and again, trying to be objective and questioning, I have to be aware of at least two implications in such usage. The spiritual notion and the physical notion. ga for followup, but briefly please. ga
Density 4 : I have nothing further. ga
ThunderK : OK. You know, sometimes the best discussions are entirely spontaneous and if something truly gripping should happen to come up, and we all agree, I am open to a change of plans. Nothing in stone so far as the schedule is concerned, since we can do quite a lot in the class folder. So please, all of you, don't hesitate to let us know what you think of a particular topic or discussion. The first thing I want to look at with you tonight is the variety of encounter locales in the abduction data. There are basically two subgroups here, the 'beginning' or 'initial' locale for an event and in many cases a second location to which the person reports being taken for a time. Usually the initial locales are one of three: in the home; in the car; in an isolated outdoor area. The second locale groups are more varied. Aboard craft that rest on the ground (or nearly); aboard craft that leave and return to the area of encounter; in an 'alien' facility with only aliens present; in alien facility with both alien and human personnel; and in a terrestrial facility, often underground and often with humans also present. What about other locales that show up in the reports? ga anyone
ThunderK : GA, Terra
Terra Alta : I doubt that this happens often enough to qualify for its own nomination as a Locale but I am currently investigating a case (and know of only a few others) in which various credible witnesses, including a minister, a mayor and others saw, over the period of years various crafts and anomalous lights interacting with "fresh graves" in a local cemetery. Period of time roughly 12-15 years perhaps 50 witnesses over that period of time sort of ties in with the discussion about the "soul" earlier, as well. ga
ThunderK : OK. First, to emphasize, until we have a conclusive 'answer' or understanding, I should think every report qualifies for examination until disproven. So by all means the more unusual reports are at least as important if not, perhaps, moreso, for we often learn more from the anomaly than from the pattern. If this is a substantiated claim, then maybe we should be glad the bodies were already dead? What about any other locations? ga, UFOBOB.
UFOBOB51 : Are there many reports of abductions from big urban areas? And r craft sightings usually reported? ga
ThunderK : Sure, there are plenty of urban abduction reports. And craft are consistently reported as much from city sightings as any other. In the last two years, I'm aware of flaps in Dallas, Austin, and Ft. Worth/Waco areas just in Texas, and at least two very active areas here in Arkansas plus a number of other U.S. locations, which never got reported outside of their own areas, for instance. Anyone else, ga?
ThunderK : If not, I guess I'm a bit surprised that the location on other planets hasn't popped up yet. GA, Dee.
Dee777 : Milwaukee, WI had a sighting. Actually, the green light was seen to go all the way from Racine to Green Bay, quite a distance, and it was reported on all the news media.GA
ThunderK : Yes, I've just gotten more news about that sighting recently, newspaper reports. And there was a previous group of sightings in the past 18 months or so in that area. GA Density.
Density 4 : There have been a growing number of allegations regarding "abductee training centers" on both Mars and the dark side-o-the moon has anyone else heard similar things? ga
ThunderK : I haven't heard this, at least in such specific terms. Although I remember the Alternative 3 material quite well. What, briefly, is the info? ga
Density 4 : Just that. I can provide you with additional docs via email. ga
ThunderK : I mean, training in what? ga
Density 4 : I don't know exactly- I can check if you'd like. ga
ThunderK : Good. OK, Terra Alta, I think you had a comment? ga
Terra Alta : A multiple (actually, 1,500 times!) abductee I'm currently working with reports being taken to an interdimensional or "institial" place. ga
ThunderK : Is there more to the description of this place? ga
Terra Alta : Yes, much too much detail for here. Later via e-mail or in the quad, okay?ga
ThunderK : OK! On with the schedule. In the earlier days of encounter reports, there were several cases claiming travel to other cosmic bodies, from the moon to the known planets, usually and then in the next twenty or so years, the reports grew to include planets not identified by the aliens the most common of which is the desert or red, barren planet yet it has not, to my knowledge, ever been identified as Mars. More on all the location reports will be discussed in the folder. I also want to quickly (as we're running out of time) go through a few other lists specifically so we can delve into them during the week. The next topic: alien teaching and training sessions...
(Ed note: There is a missing piece of the class here. that's what was refered to at the opening of this class. Sorry. John Velez)
ThunderK : about other types of teaching/training session reports you've learned of? GA, Irene
IreneR757 : I just got punted and don't know exactly what you said but I was taken to a place I called "The Arena" several times, it appeared like some kind of horse training center on top and had an underground facility underneath. The dirt in the arena was very red, the facility had many levels and rooms and included the military. ga
ThunderK : This is consistent with probably three or four other reports in my research except for the specific ground color in all cases and the 'arena' description but the term 'corral' has been used in a similar report...GA, Terra Alta, but first, for Irene, we will certainly go more into the underground topic, pardon the pun, in our folder! Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. Please ga with your thoughts, Irene.
IreneR757 : I *very* much want to know about the others. This is very uncomfortable for me tonight. ga
IreneR757 : I'm finished, it's just that the *last* thing one wants to hear when relaying this kind of experience. I have used the term rodeo many times in refering to this place. ga
ThunderK : What exactly is causing your discomfort with this? Is it disturbing if true, you mean? ga Let me interrupt again, please we haven't gotten to a very important part of this class discussion which would be useful here, the topic of virtual reality. I hope that when we do discuss this, you may be somewhat relieved to consider that a great deal of what we see and experience may indeed be illusory to a large degree. That is one thing I try to remember always, both with my own experiences and with the reports of others who share theirs with me. Do you want to ga now, Irene?
IreneR757 : I'm just very upset by the concept of having been "trained". To do what, when, what part of "me" has been tampered with? ga
ThunderK : Yes, I fully agree! It must be the primary worry of every abductee, once the awareness of the agenda begins to sink in, even though we know so little of it. This does bring us back to the next topic I want to cover for our week's discussion, alien lore and metaphysics. Part of the abduction data includes such reports. In the category of 'lore' I include info about the aliens' home planet or system, with all its many varieties. Also included are the various explanations of the aliens' purposes which are imparted to abductees (as well as contactees, of course).
These typically are:
(1) here to help their own species,
(2) here to help human species,
(3) here to assist in some spiritual scenario...
(4) here to warn us of future destruction but to do nothing to prevent it. Any others? ga
IreneR757 : !
ThunderK : Yes, Irene, ga
IreneR757 : Maybe they are here for purely research purposes. I don't believe that but it is a possibility.
ThunderK : Yes, and it is one the aliens have proffered in several cases. Of course, the possibilities of combined motivations is in the list, too. GA, Dee
Dee777 : In the UFO group I belong to, we have 30 people now, and 6 of us have been programmed with compulsions to set up communities in various parts of the country. Each one of us has the compulsion to go to a different part of the country. Each one is intense in this purpose and is working hard on the plans for the future. GA
ThunderK : Right! The "Get Ready" program that we, too, among many others, have gone through which is why we are here in the woods, certain woods with certain requirements. Is any of this familiar to you? I've now learned of probably 30 people who were compelled to move just to the Ozarks in the past three/four years, from all over the country without a real understanding of their sense of urgency and necessity to do so. Or have you and your acquaintances had a substantially different experience? After you answer, though, I want Irene to have another chance, and then we have to stop for the night, as we're past time now. GA, Dee
Dee777 : One of our group is going to the Ozarks! She went down last month to look for land. GA
ThunderK : There's plenty of it, rather affordable, but believe me, unless you're bringing a hefty bank account, you'll have trouble supporting yourself there. GA, Irene.
IreneR757 : We live in a barn and a TiPi in the woods behind Oregon City, Oregon. We have been very actively pursueing and independent lifestyle for years. This creeps me out though. I want to know that this was a good idea. My idea. ga
ThunderK : I can share my own rationalization for our actions, if you'd like...
IreneR757 : yes
ThunderK : We felt that yes, we realized we could be under external compulsion to make this move for reasons we wouldn't like if we knew them, but we also insisted that our actions here, whatever the coming situation, would be positive and do no harm, no matter what the other agenda might include, and we vowed to do only the things that were truly good for us and enjoyable as well. Here we are quite happy and active, with wonderful friends and neighbors, and the whole thing unfolded as if by plan, to be sure. But I believe (and it's just belief, I know) that humans and aliens are not the only two groups in this universe, or at least that there are more than just those who abduct. I hope that's helpful...
IreneR757 : Yes, thanks.
ThunderK : Let's close for tonight, though, and we'll have a really intense week of discussion coming up, I hope! Any final remarks? ga
Density 4 : ?
ThunderK : OK, Density
Density 4 : Briefly, you mentioned "agendas" a few times off the record, what is your "take" on the grey agenda? ga
ThunderK : Honestly, I don't think there is a Gray agenda, because the data leads me to believe that the grays are not what I'd call alive and individual but are probably manufactured tools for the real entities. ga
Density 4 : OK... so the "controllers" then? ga
ThunderK : Oh, the real question! I don't have a strong hypothesis, truly but I'd be glad to discuss the possibilities, which is all I have at present. ga, anyone else?
ThunderK : OK, let's pack it up for the night, and I'll finish the topics in the folder tomorrow. Thank you all for being here, and thanks especially to those who contributed tonight! Bye for now.